I haven't been paying attn to the movie buzz. Once I've read a book I don't really see a point in watching movie of it. I don't see how the story itself mocks jesus unless they changed it drastically for the movie.
That sounds exactly like the way Basic Instinct 2 was received. I know Hollywood has been sucking some major donkey balls for some time, but this is a decent cast in a film based on a bestseller. Is it really that easy to screw up?
I believe in the stories of the Bible about as much as I believe in Bigfoot and unicorns. It is time people wake up and realize that all religions are just a crutch for the weak minded.
And I would have totally gone to see it if Jesus was wearing a top hat and sported a nifty cane...after all this, I would have to say that Christianity is overrated...
is what I think 11:43 was going for, and it wasn't Lenin. It was Karl Marx who wasn't too far off in that statement. Religion is not logical. The only one practiced which makes any sense at all and doesn't have texts which are dripping in blood the way the Bible and the Koran are is Buddhism, and it's not a religion. It's a philosophy.
Arguing religion with the closed minded and God fearing majority is a no win situation anyway.
Tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him, or that frozen yogurt can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to be persuaded only to the extent that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept its every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence whatsoever
Five Biggest Flaws in 'The Da Vinci Code' Wednesday, May 17, 2006
PHOTOS VIDEO
Click image to enlarge ARCHIVE SHOW INFO •Five Biggest Flaws in 'The Da Vinci Code'
March 13, 2006 This is a partial transcript of "The Big Story With John Gibson," May 16, 2006, that has been edited for clarity.
JOHN GIBSON, HOST: Some new meanings are explained and "secrets unlocked" in "The Da Vinci Code." But how much of the movie is actual factual?
Here with what she says are the five biggest flaws in the story, freelance writer Amy Welborn. She's also the author of "De-coding Mary Magdalene: Truth, Legend and Lies."
Let's start there, Amy. Mary Magdalene. "The Da Vinci Code" says Jesus and Mary were married. True or false?
AMY WELBORN, AUTHOR, "DE-CODING MARY MAGDALENE: TRUTH, LEGEND AND LIES": False. There's no evidence in the Gospels that Jesus was married to anyone, much less Mary Magdalene.
GIBSON: Is there any suggestion that they might have been?
WELBORN: No, there isn't. The Gospels are really forthright about Jesus' family relationships, about the relationships that he had with people in his town.
They name the apostles, his friends. They name Mary Magdalene. They give a high position to Mary Magdalene in the Gospels, actually. If they were going to hide her — I mean, if they were married, there's no reason for them to hide that relationship at all.
GIBSON: Well, you know, the theory behind the book is that the marriage is denied because the Catholic Church wanted the religion to be centered around men and wanted to push her out of the way. I mean, that's explicitly stated in "The Da Vinci Code."
WELBORN: Right. Right.
And, you know, that vision of early Christianity in "The Da Vinci Code" is based on nothing from the first four centuries of Christian history. You know, "The Da Vinci Code" is a book that purports to tell the history of early Christianity and then doesn't cite any sources directly related to the first century in telling that story.
And so, the truth is that, you know, Mary Magdalene did play an important role. And if they wanted to hide her role, they did a really bad job because, of course, in all four of the Gospels, Mary Magdalene is the first person to discover the empty tomb. It's on her witness that the entire Christian message rests.
So you would think if they were up to hiding her relationship and her importance, they would have taken that part out. But they didn't.
GIBSON: OK. But then there's this other one that is related to Mary Magdalene, of course, which is, not only were they married, they had a daughter, and Mary Magdalene and the daughter went to Europe. And there are still descendants of that daughter.
WELBORN: That's all just a 20th century fantasy and fabrication.
Some writers write, you know, sort of fantastical meditations on that possibility. But there's no evidence in the scriptures. There's no evidence from early church history.
There is a legend in the West that Mary Magdalene did go to Provence in France to help spread the Gospel. In the East, the legend about Mary Magdalene post-crucifixion and resurrection is different.
But there's no hint in anything before the 20th century that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married or had a child or anything like that.
GIBSON: In the little bit of time left, spin off the three other major flaws.
WELBORN: Well, the first major flaw is that Constantine invented Christianity, or that the early Christians didn't believe that Jesus is Lord.
Again, a simple look at first century texts, like the letters of Paul, who had a very high Christology, show how false this is. What were the early Christians arrested for and dying for? Were they arrested and dying for, you know, a rabbi with a girlfriend? No. They were arrested and dying for proclaiming that Jesus was Lord.
GIBSON: Amy, the last two, real quick, before I run out of time.
(CROSSTALK)
WELBORN: Very quickly, the idea that Leonardo encoded all this stuff into his paintings. The Priory of Scion is a fraud. It was invented in the 1950s.
And the other major mistake would be that, you know, related to Opus Dei, for example, the character of Silas, who was an albino Opus Dei monk. Opus Dei is a lay organization. They don't have monks, and they're not intent on world domination.
(LAUGHTER)
GIBSON: OK. All right. Thank you very much, Amy Welborn.
WELBORN: You're welcome.
GIBSON: She's the author of "De-coding Mary Magdalene: Truth, Legend and Lies."
Well, the Catholic churches aren't too phased with the premier of The Da Vinci Code, dismissing it as a form of fictional entertainment so I guess they're not too offended.
But I think we should still be considerate of other people's beliefs... I mean, that's enough Bible bashing, right? Of course there will always be exceptions where people follow their religions blindly and without question, but there are also those who searched long and hard for answers in life, and they found it through faith. Sooo I think everyone should respect that choice of the individuals and to stop attacking them for it.
sam harris: I can't say for sure, but I don't think Christians believe that an "invisible deity" wrote the Bible. Instead, the Bible is just a collection of events, written by lots of different people, who God "inspired".
I dont have a problem with anyone having an imaginary friend untill they start flying planes into buildings and killing there children because "god" told them to do it...
it's sick that people refuse to accept the word of God, which is simple to understand, and instead accept these crazy stories, maybe if people actually started going to church more the world would be a less screwed up place, Christianity doesn't mean fanaticism like some represtent, it's a peaceful, loving faith
"Arguing religion with the closed minded and God fearing majority is a no win situation anyway."
Your motives precede you. People shouldn't "argue" religion -- they should have a rational discussion on what they believe and why. The fact that you use words like "closed-minded" and "no-win situation" shows that you'd rather label people than have a chat with them.
^ And others of us are sick of people forcing "the word of God" on us. It's never been proven it's the "word of God". Just because some nutcase heard voices in his head and chiseled it onto a tablet and it's been translated and manipulated countless times since then does not make it true.
If this happened in 2006 with the advances in science and technology we have now, these people (the original author of the Bible and Jesus) would just be considered insane ie: David Koresh and Jim Jones.
"Anonymous said... I dont have a problem with anyone having an imaginary friend untill they start flying planes into buildings and killing there children because "god" told them to do it... May 17, 2006 1:32 PM"
LOL! I wish I had thought to say the imaginary friend thing!
And Sam Harris and Anon 11:43 AM, you are both right on!
Most religious people dont think and most thinkers are not religious. The problem with this world IS religion and if things dont change people will continue flying planes into buildings and doing other crazy shit. Going to church doesnt make you any more than a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car.
Some religious people do the right things for the wrong reason: because they think they will get something for themselves, like getting into Heaven.
True altruism might therefore only exist among good people who are NOT religious. They are good and kind and generous because that is the right and decent way to be, and they aren't just doing it under some threat of Hell or promise of Heaven.
I can't believe all the Christian and Bible bashing that is going on here. Why are people so quick to dismiss God, the diety of Jesus, or the words of the Bible? Is it because you'd then have to be held accountable for your actions while here on Earth?
^ I, for one, have studied religion most of my life. At this point I can sum up with, the Bible is a great guidebook for those who do not have the common sense required to be a good person and live comfortably and peacefully with fellow human beings, God is an invisible being in the sky and more people have been murdered in the name of religion than for any other reason since the dawn of man.
I can murder people, steal, molest, abuse and as long as I go to confession, ask for forgiveness and do the rosary, God will forgive me and I get to go to heaven.
carrie- The Muslims say every christian is going to hell. Who is right? they are obviously more fathfull considering you know, they are willing to die for their faith and all. by the way no one can prove hell even exists. The idea of hell was created by man a long time ago as a way to keep people in line, nothing more.
Damn well pointed-out, 2:30pm! Because as far as I'm concerned, the people who do those things should go straight to "Hell", after they've served a hefty (if not permanent) jail sentence!
And any religion that forgives rape or murder is evil in itself.
Thankfully we have the court system, which at least *tries* to protect the normal people from the monstrous ones.
Apparently all you people who are bashing Jesus have done absolutely nothing with your lives. I'm sure your father abused you, or you're overweight, or you're on welfare, and because of it you're jealous of those who are happy with their religion and feel the need to blame someone else because of your misfortunes. you are saying that christians are idiots because they base their beliefs on the bible, but YOU are basing your beliefs on a MOVIE...which one is more unrealistic?? also, those who "fly planes into buildings" were Muslim, NOT christians and if they did so it was only because they were punishing us for "claiming" to be a christian nation and not acting like one.
anonymous - You're correct...who is right? We won't know that until the day we die. I only know what I believe to be true. And by the way, I do not believe radical Muslims and I worship the same God. The God I know (and who has shown Himself to be real in my life) has never asked anyone to kill innocent people in His name. My main reason for commenting was...why people are so quick to bash the idea of God and a book that only promotes loving your neighbor...not killing them?
i can't believe what i am reading. You should NOT attack some one because of their beliefs. first off, all of your arguments have so many flaws. IF you are going to insult relgion plase make sure you have the correct informtion to do so, without such information you just sound like a load of ignorant idiotits, which quite frankly you all sound like. I am not going to bother correcting all of your mistakes on the christian relgion. However i feel the need to point out at least one idiotic statement:
"The problem with this world IS religion and if things dont change people will continue flying planes into buildings and doing other crazy shit." Problem no 1: relgion has been around for thousands upon thousands of years, if it is such a bad thing why has our society not completely collapsed already. Also you can't dissmiss an entire relgion let alone, relgion in general, because if a minor sect of one relgion that promotes Violence!
I could go on attacking each of your statements individually but i just could not be arsed to read them all again.
You are all free to have your own opinion on relgion. I Would be happy to hear your opinion if had a valid argument, but reading these comments i have yet to see one, all i have seen is petty insults. I don't want to push religion down your throats, if you chose not to have one, that is perfectly fine. But please do not attack or belittle someone because they chose to believe in something you do not.
P.S i also have to say in defense that one who is a christain should not insult a non believer because of they don't believe in it. I really don't appreciate the comment one made about how they must be "over-weight" and a" abused" that does not help us, it only adds to the idea of christains being condescending
Anon 2:38pm, I doubt anyone here is basing their beliefs on a movie, but if they were it would be the same thing as basing it on a book.
I do find it very funny that your rant suggests we are jealous and tragic simply because we disagree with you. That logic actually sounds a lot like my crazy Mormon sister in law. Hey, what DO Mormons think of all this? Let's hear a shout-out.
Actually the origin of their bible is even funnier, at least it is from what I learned about it on South Park. ;)
By the way, sorry about how it's all working out, Tom Hanks! I still intend to see your movie because you're a great actor and I think it probably only got jeered at by the freaks who were so up-in-arms about whether or not it was claiming to be a work of fiction, which it IS! It's a crime-thriller-fiction, people. That's all the writer ever claimed it was. It's a novel. Say it with me: naaaah-vel. (No, this ain't Britney.)
I just saw the movie earlier tonight (it came out in France today), all I can say it was a huge disappointment. I've never been less interested in a film, loved the book though
Wow...there is a lot of anger here. I don't judge any of you for believing what you do (or do not)...but I do hope you all find your path in life -- one that promotes peace and loving others, even when they are doing wrong. None of us are perfect, afterall!
dear mary elizabeth, I started out respecting your comment when you advised people to stay away from ad hominem arguments, and then you went and said "you just sound like a load of ignorant idiotits." Wow. You did exactly what you accused others of doing, and then you even misspelled "idiots." That is so funny on a variety of levels.
But back to the substance of your comment. You attempted to point out the idiocy of someone's comment by saying: "Problem no 1: relgion has been around for thousands upon thousands of years, if it is such a bad thing why has our society not completely collapsed already. Also you can't dissmiss an entire relgion let alone, relgion in general, because if a minor sect of one relgion that promotes Violence!" Counterpoint number 1: You really should learn how to spell "religion" if you are going to call others idiots. Counterpoint number 2: Have you ever heard of a little thing called The Crusades? Nearly all organized religions have condoned violence at some point. Counterpoint number 3: Maybe society exists IN SPITE of religion. The logic of your question is flawed.
NOW GO READ A FUCKING BOOK AND LET THE ADULTS TALK.
Bottom line: Religion is great for those people who need something like that in their lives, as long as they don't hurt others. As a general rule, people are stupid and need to be told what to do. If a person is smart enough and kind enough to guide his own actions, then an imaginary diety in the sky is superfluous.
Muslims are not more faithful because they are willing to die for a cause----a cause that has to do with economic wealth,not religion. Besides how can any God loving or faithfull people think God approves of massive killings,molesting of unage girls, Arab muslims ensalving African muslims, raping of lower tribal or casted women & children (male & female) and last but not least THE KILLING OF OTHER GOD LOVING OR FAITHFUL PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITHS. Muslims want to rule the world like any other group of oppresstors--there is nothing holy about their mission or agenda.
anon 2:48, Maybe you shouldn't base your ideas upon things you learn from a cartoon. That being said, Matt and Trey were pretty accurate about the origins. Didn't they grow up Mormon or something? Anyway, it is not a Mormon "Bible". Mormons believe in the Bible as well as another book called the Book of Mormon. 2 different things.
"The problem with this world IS religion and if things dont change people will continue flying planes into buildings and doing other crazy shit. Going to church doesnt make you any more than a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. "
Hey, fool, there are crazy people in the world. Some adhere vehemently to religious dogma and bank their lives on it.
Some adhere vehemently to atheist nihilism and bank their lives on it(Columbine, anyone?).
So there you have it - somecrazy people fly planes into buildings, and some crazy people shoot up a school of innocent people. All are extremists for their own cause.
Any sociologist or anthropologist will tell you: Religion has done more good than harm in this world. With the extinction of religion also comes the extinction of the morals that have kept the world turning for centuries. Without a feeling of divine judgement, people will be 100x more likely to steal, lie, hurt, etc. If you deny that, you're a little foolish snot. YOU may feel that you do not need a God to keep your behavior honorable, but the masses won't give a shit about society.
Everyone would adopt a Ayn Rand type of philosophy. And why the fuck not -- if this is the only life there is to live, we might as well do whatever feels best for ourselves! Three cheers for selfish indulgement and greed.
Atheism is the fucking doorway to the downfall of the world. Religion has it's downfalls -- but whether it's truth or not, it has certainly mantained social order.
the Torah was not written by one man. it was a combination of stories and historical truths. the man you refer to may or may not have slept with prostitutes (its hard to say who it was, since there were several authors of the Torah)... but since he's human, he's not exempt from sin.
Religion is nothing more than a guide for the stupid and the weak.
The poster who says that the world will fall into chaos and evil without the fear of eternal retribution is an idiot.
God is an evil an violent entity as written in the bible. He gave humans free will. He then caused a flood killing almost all life on the planet (including people who had never heard of him and animals who had no way of knowing or worshipping). Since god is all knowing and omnipotent he must have known that he was going to have to destroy almost all life. The question is then why would god create people and animals that would have no way of becoming worthy in his eyes and then drown them and dash their bodies on the rocks?
Ever hear of the golden rule? That is all you will ever need to be moral in this life. If you require unicorns, god and three dollars bills packaged into explaining it to you then wish you would just stay home and out of the way of the rest of us.
I'm no expert on religion or Christianity or such but when did people forget that this is A MOVIE and to pay your 10 bucks (not including Milk Duds and a large slurpee) and lose themselves for a couple of hours? I guess I must be the minority.
I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed reading the comments here, especially by Anonymous (the Catholic). Mate, whoever you are, you rock. Totally agree with everything you said and I wish I could have a few beers with you! Anyway folks, whatever you believe or dont believe, at least try to be nice to each other! :)
For God's sake, or not, can we talk about the movie?
I loved the book, but when I heard Tom Hanks was the lead, i just about puked. His "academic" hair-do is laughable. This all makes me mad because if the casting was right, I think this movie could have been a hit.
We shouldn't respect people's beliefs when they're inherently discriminatory and consititute naught but teh ages long rape of self-autonomy. Religion is a sorry social construct created by those in authority to eliminate responsibility for the consequences of pursuing their own agency. Once we wake up to this, actual sustainable societies may just be possible.
Just curious what you think of Christianity & Islam, both of which incorporate the Torah as the Old Testament, etc. - If the first religion is flawed, than the two that built on it must be as well, n'est pas? Or did I miss something? ;)
Have you heard about the atheist who was taking a walk through a forest, admiring all that the accident of evolution had created? "What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What beautiful animals!" he said to himself. As he continued to walk alongside the river he began to hear a rustling in the bushes behind him. When he turned to look he momentarily froze out of sheer terror: a 7-foot grizzly was charging toward him! He began to run as fast as he could away from the bear, but every time he looked over his shoulder he noticed the bear was running faster and getting closer, which caused him to put all his strength together to run even faster. He was so scared that tears were coming to his eyes. But when he looked over his shoulder again the bear was even closer. With a heart that was pumping frantically, he tried to run still even faster. The the worse thing possible happened...he tripped over a stump and fell to the ground! Quickly, he rolled over to pick himself up just in time to see the bear, almost right on top of him! The bear was reaching for him with its left paw while raising its right paw to strike! At that instant the atheist cried out "God, HELP ME!..." Time instantly froze. The bear became immobile. The forest was completely without motion and noise-even the river had stopped moving. All of a sudden the atheist heard a powerful, authoritive voice speak out... "You have denied my existence for many years. You have taught others I don't exist, and even credited my creation to a cosmic accident. Why now do you expect me to help you out of this predicament?" The atheist was startled, but finally collected his wits, "It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask you to show mercy on me now, but perhaps you could make the bear a Christian?" All of a sudden the noise of the forest resumed, the river was running again, and the bear was no longer immobile. In fact the bear was dropping its right paw! It brought both paws together, bowed its head, and to the consternation of the atheist, began to speak! "Lord for this food which I am about to receive, I am truly thankful..." ----------------- I thought I'd share this joke with you all to lighten things up a bit. Remember we are ALL in this together. We shouldn't point fingers at someone because they're religious. If it means it makes them a better person, then more power to you. It's not all just about being a better person either. It's also about what's going to happen to your soul when you pass away. I believe in an afterlife. Life and this world are just a small part of what it's really all about. Our time here is short, but precious. We are here to learn. There are many good religions. Pick one that's right for you. Religion is just a way or style you choose to worship God. I have many friends who belong to different religions. As long as you believe that some entity is responsible for the precious gift of life-this world, its animals, plantlife, the sun, the moon, everything just works together so beautifully. It is a masterpiece. Life gets hard. God wants it that way sometimes so we can grow stronger. Life is easier to handle when you have a spiritual foundation netting you from falling in a black hole of confusion, despair and frustration. I was born Catholic, but don't take the religion too seriously. I still read about it, and practice some things about it, but I also like to read about other religions as well and try some of their advice and points-of-view on things. I like to learn from people, not point fingers or name call. I can admire someone for their convictions, even if I don't entirely agree with them. Nobody truly has all the answers until after you die. I will tell you that I do feel a connection with God, or with a God. I think you will too, once you stop running away from that connection. We should all be taking delight and a genuine interest in each other's opinions. You know, there is one thing that the many different types of religion in the world have in common? It's the Golden Rule - "Do unto others they way you would have them do unto you." Shouldn't we? Life is too short.
Oh wow this was a freaky one. Can I just point out that the people who seem to think that everybody would starting raping/murdering/stealing if there was no book to tell us what to do - there are many books other than the bible, not to mention a small thing called societal pressure.
But anyhow .... I hated the book and have no intention of seeing the movie, and as an academic myself, Tom Hanks looks so NOT an academic of any sort or type. Where are his elbow patches? His pipe? Hee hee ... more seriously, jeans and a sweater are more academic, what's with the natty suit and dark shirt? And the weird hair ....
I think the majority of you people are forgetting that this book/movie is FICTION, meaning it's NOT true. Sorry, but it really annoys me when people boycott crap like this for their own agenda. It's a movie!
Religion is only flawed when extremists follow it to a fault. (I.e. crashing planes into buildings in the name of Allah, or the "holy" crusades parts 1,2, and three lol ) The world would be a better place if everyone practiced the fundamentals of any given belief, but as always there are loads of crazies out there that love going overboard....perhaps they belong on cruise ships! That being said...it's a movie...see it or don't. Did people freak out when Indiana Jones found the holy grail?!?! OMG a new thread! LOL CHEERS
"BTW, why the necessity of being 'moral' in this life if you don't believe in god or an afterlife? It doesn't make sense. Get a clue."
"Good Grief", If you seriously believe there is NO reason to be a GOOD PERSON other than the threat/promise of an afterlife, then I guess it's a good thing there IS religion to keep the truly selfish and soulless like yourself in line!!
The rest of us, who know that we should all treat people well, so that everyone can be equally safe and happy, WE will continue to be good people, with no need of religion's threats.
sugarcookie- that was the stupidest shit I have ever read. Yeah then the elves came out the trees and had cookies and they all had a oicnick with the faries and unicorns. retarded...
so it is best to be half ass religious and only follow blind faith. As long as you go to church on sunday and look nice in front of your peers you will go to "heaven".
I'm gonna wait for it to get to the $2.50 theatre.
I'll agree with Marx on the religion thing. I mean, the guy who wrote Revelations (John) was in prison suffering starvation and sleep deprivation, of COURSE he was hallucinating and getting 'the crazies.' I can't believe people take all that seriously.
Ok. So I guess all of you that just believe that religion and the Bible was made up beleive in evolution. Right? I do believe in God and I do go to church. There is a bigger being and HE does great things for people. How do you explain MIRACLES. If we did evolve from monkeys how did we do it? Nobody can yet to explain that. We do know how we were made from God. I just don't think that we should talk about people that don't go to church. Maybe they just haven't experienced His presence yet. I do pray for each one of you that don't believe in religion. I do hope that one day that you all will know God or at least give him a chance. He is a wonderful being. I just hope that it is before the end of time.
why is everyone arguing whether religion is right/wrong...false, stupid etc... its like saying im better then u because i have a bigger house...its an argument without a basis. Many of you are insulting posters, rather then the arguments they make... you try to demean and dismiss their post by how they spelled certain words. Their spelling is not important, but what is said is, whether true, or not, it has a point. Also making posts and statements like "go to confession, kill, confession etc" is not true, christianity though forgiving does not work that way. Many statements are ignorant, many are not, hell even some of you will think my statements are ignorant or hypocrytical, thats great u can tell me why, just make it a legitimate argument. I am a religious person, im a christian, i have studied and researched theology, looked at philosophy and am trying to understand religion. To me it is not important what the religion is, but rather the message behind it. Whether buddhism, christianity, etc.. they all have similar messages, there's different sects within these religions with similar and opposing views, each viewing their point of view about the other, just like the arguments here. Whether you are atheist, is not important, whether you are religious is not important, what is important is how you live your life, how you treat others. Religion provides a guide to life, but there are many guides, and it is up to the person to choose. I dont really want to rant, so ill finish my post quickly.
I have read the da vinci code, i think its a great book and you can learn alot from it even though lots of it is false:P.
P.S.- As some philosopher said (dont remmeber name or exact quote, but here's the gist of it), if you live an honest life ull feel good and satisfied even if god does not exist, but if there is a god,all the better for u cause ull be going to heaven :P.
"...But anyhow .... I hated the book and have no intention of seeing the movie, and as an academic myself, Tom Hanks looks so NOT an academic of any sort or type. Where are his elbow patches? His pipe? Hee hee ... more seriously, jeans and a sweater are more academic, what's with the natty suit and dark shirt? And the weird hair .... May 18, 2006 12:19 AM "
Don't forget Jeff Goldblum the mathematician in Jurassic Park, with his way-sexy leather jacket and pants, and his shirt open all the way down... ;)
Oops I mentioned a dinosaur movie, someone *smite* me!! Oh no that's right, dinosaurs are supposedly a *test of faith* right?
"good grief said... What's with all the sermonising 5:22? You're just as bad as those wild-eyed, fanatical 'pastors' out in the Bible Belt. May 17, 2006 6:20 PM"
Actually 6:20pm, if you had been paying attention you would have realised that that poster wants his question answered. Why WOULD God have done that, if it happened at all?
"He gave humans free will. He then caused a flood killing almost all life on the planet (including people who had never heard of him and animals who had no way of knowing or worshipping).
Since god is all knowing and omnipotent he must have known that he was going to have to destroy almost all life.
The question is then why would god create people and animals that would have no way of becoming worthy in his eyes and then drown them and dash their bodies on the rocks?"
No one ever answers that question. It's always met with annoyed silence.
People would be perfectly 'safe and happy' even if I chose to be a "bad" person. Concern for other people's safety and happiness is just not enough of a reason for most people to behave, and it is certainly not a persuasive one when dealing with the mass of humanity at large. Do you really think society can be kept 'safe and happy' by extolling people to be good simply because it's good for society? Sorry, that doesn't work and is extremely naive. I'm guessing you're still in HS or early college.
As an example, what do you think society would be like if there was no police and the threat of arrest and imprisonment? How much more crime do you think there would be? How long in even the most 'civilised' of countries before people would be stealing from, raping and killing each other? You don't have to travel too far in this small world of ours to see what living under lawlessness is like in some countries (Somalia, Afghanistan): constant fear and utter insecurity, senseless death, unbounded crime; in other words, an amoral chaos of inhuman horrors devoid of any justice or meaning, utter emptiness.
Without threat of punishment people would be at each others' throats soon enough; even you with all your high-minded ideals would be. It would become a matter of survival.
Sorry. I know it's not pretty. But we are talking about human beings after all, and we all know what we can be like given the right circumstances.
As far as I'm concerned, the people who do those things should go straight to "Hell", after they've served a hefty (if not permanent) jail sentence!
And any religion that forgives rape or murder is evil in itself.
Thankfully we have the court system, which at least *tries* to protect the normal people from the monstrous ones.
May 17, 2006 2:38 PM
I never actually said anything naive at any time that would help you with your tangent.
My point was simple; people should be good to each other and religion isn't *required* for a person to be good.
I never said the entire world was good or bad, or that asking people to be good was the answer, but you didn't need to actually read and absorb before you went off on your rant, the mark of a true child. You found the rest of your rant totally on your own.
You say that I'm naive, based on the twisting and incorrect extrapolation of my words, when you yourself sound like a carefully manufactured cynic, trying really hard to make ALL people sound amoral, which simply isn't accurate of this world.
I guarantee I'm at least 20 years older than you. I can just tell by your immaturity.
God created humanity and gave it free-will and the choice to believe in Him or not as a test to see who would be the true believers. Just because He knew the outcome wasn't going to be very good doesn't mean He shouldn't have created them. I mean, then why create anything at all? That is, really, the heart of your question in a way: why did God create the universe at all? Why is there something rather than nothing?
Of course, to that I have no answer (although it doesn't 'annoy' me). An analogy might be why does an artist create? Some people say He did it out of "love." Not the kind of love we know but a higher, divine type of love (whatever that means!). Another anology to us: why do we love? (propagation of the species is a poor reason, let's face it. you don't need love for that and yet we do love nonetheless)
The Muslim mystics (Sufis) say He created the world because 'He was a hidden treasure and wanted to be discovered'. You can take this meaning anyway you like. My feeling is that it's a little more complex than it sounds. Far be it for me to understand what the heck most of those guys were talking about anyway, they were way out there.
I'm tired now and can't be bothered to answer you anymore. Suffice it to say your comment doesn't address what I said, is confused and bizarrely angry. Lighten up.
As I've said, it was just a joke to lighten things up, but I see you have no sense of humor or personality. What my point was was that religion is good when it's a way a person expresses their spirituality. Religion is bad when people follow it in an extremist way and allow it to close their minds. We should have open minds and arms for everyone. And for the people out there who do not believe in anything at all, you will when it's staring you back in the face one day. Got soul?
Personally I think it's more important to be spiritual than soaked & dripping in organized religion. I also think that believing in God and an afterlife helps people to behave. Human beings are capable of some pretty sickening disgusting violent insane things. The police and other law enforement agencies can only take it so far. If you had a choice to live in a Godless world or a world where people believed, which one would you choose?
I saw it yesterday and I have to say, that it's a really good movie. I hate church anyway, but a lot of the tings in the movie a real theories ( you know like the Maria thing).
The movie is brilliant, dont listen to what the critics say.. I saw it last night and it's exciting, well acted and all round good entertainment. What more can you ask for?
78 Comments:
I said it from the very beginning Russell Crowe should have played Langdon.
By Anonymous, on 10:42 AM
Ha. Was that a strained reference to Young Frankenstein when the monster did a little softshoe number with Gene Wilder?
By Anonymous, on 10:44 AM
I haven't been paying attn to the movie buzz. Once I've read a book I don't really see a point in watching movie of it. I don't see how the story itself mocks jesus unless they changed it drastically for the movie.
By Anonymous, on 10:47 AM
That sounds exactly like the way Basic Instinct 2 was received. I know Hollywood has been sucking some major donkey balls for some time, but this is a decent cast in a film based on a bestseller. Is it really that easy to screw up?
By sam991, on 11:12 AM
I believe in the stories of the Bible about as much as I believe in Bigfoot and unicorns. It is time people wake up and realize that all religions are just a crutch for the weak minded.
By Anonymous, on 11:43 AM
Meh. I still plan to see it. It'll bump M:I 3 down, and will itself be bumped down next week by X3. Tis the circle of life.
By rm®, on 11:54 AM
11:43
Stop copying my lines!
By Vladimir Lenin, on 12:09 PM
Anon 11:43, nice trolling. Maybe next time you'll catch something...like herpes.
By jeditemple, on 12:16 PM
And I would have totally gone to see it if Jesus was wearing a top hat and sported a nifty cane...after all this, I would have to say that Christianity is overrated...
By Anonymous, on 12:20 PM
"Religion is the opiate of the masses."
is what I think 11:43 was going for, and it wasn't Lenin. It was Karl Marx who wasn't too far off in that statement. Religion is not logical. The only one practiced which makes any sense at all and doesn't have texts which are dripping in blood the way the Bible and the Koran are is Buddhism, and it's not a religion. It's a philosophy.
Arguing religion with the closed minded and God fearing majority is a no win situation anyway.
By Anonymous, on 12:21 PM
Tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him, or that frozen yogurt can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to be persuaded only to the extent that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept its every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence whatsoever
By Sam Harris, on 12:32 PM
Five Biggest Flaws in 'The Da Vinci Code'
Wednesday, May 17, 2006
PHOTOS VIDEO
Click image to enlarge
ARCHIVE SHOW INFO
•Five Biggest Flaws in 'The Da Vinci Code'
March 13, 2006
This is a partial transcript of "The Big Story With John Gibson," May 16, 2006, that has been edited for clarity.
JOHN GIBSON, HOST: Some new meanings are explained and "secrets unlocked" in "The Da Vinci Code." But how much of the movie is actual factual?
Here with what she says are the five biggest flaws in the story, freelance writer Amy Welborn. She's also the author of "De-coding Mary Magdalene: Truth, Legend and Lies."
Let's start there, Amy. Mary Magdalene. "The Da Vinci Code" says Jesus and Mary were married. True or false?
AMY WELBORN, AUTHOR, "DE-CODING MARY MAGDALENE: TRUTH, LEGEND AND LIES": False. There's no evidence in the Gospels that Jesus was married to anyone, much less Mary Magdalene.
GIBSON: Is there any suggestion that they might have been?
WELBORN: No, there isn't. The Gospels are really forthright about Jesus' family relationships, about the relationships that he had with people in his town.
They name the apostles, his friends. They name Mary Magdalene. They give a high position to Mary Magdalene in the Gospels, actually. If they were going to hide her — I mean, if they were married, there's no reason for them to hide that relationship at all.
GIBSON: Well, you know, the theory behind the book is that the marriage is denied because the Catholic Church wanted the religion to be centered around men and wanted to push her out of the way. I mean, that's explicitly stated in "The Da Vinci Code."
WELBORN: Right. Right.
And, you know, that vision of early Christianity in "The Da Vinci Code" is based on nothing from the first four centuries of Christian history. You know, "The Da Vinci Code" is a book that purports to tell the history of early Christianity and then doesn't cite any sources directly related to the first century in telling that story.
And so, the truth is that, you know, Mary Magdalene did play an important role. And if they wanted to hide her role, they did a really bad job because, of course, in all four of the Gospels, Mary Magdalene is the first person to discover the empty tomb. It's on her witness that the entire Christian message rests.
So you would think if they were up to hiding her relationship and her importance, they would have taken that part out. But they didn't.
GIBSON: OK. But then there's this other one that is related to Mary Magdalene, of course, which is, not only were they married, they had a daughter, and Mary Magdalene and the daughter went to Europe. And there are still descendants of that daughter.
WELBORN: That's all just a 20th century fantasy and fabrication.
Some writers write, you know, sort of fantastical meditations on that possibility. But there's no evidence in the scriptures. There's no evidence from early church history.
There is a legend in the West that Mary Magdalene did go to Provence in France to help spread the Gospel. In the East, the legend about Mary Magdalene post-crucifixion and resurrection is different.
But there's no hint in anything before the 20th century that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married or had a child or anything like that.
GIBSON: In the little bit of time left, spin off the three other major flaws.
WELBORN: Well, the first major flaw is that Constantine invented Christianity, or that the early Christians didn't believe that Jesus is Lord.
Again, a simple look at first century texts, like the letters of Paul, who had a very high Christology, show how false this is. What were the early Christians arrested for and dying for? Were they arrested and dying for, you know, a rabbi with a girlfriend? No. They were arrested and dying for proclaiming that Jesus was Lord.
GIBSON: Amy, the last two, real quick, before I run out of time.
(CROSSTALK)
WELBORN: Very quickly, the idea that Leonardo encoded all this stuff into his paintings. The Priory of Scion is a fraud. It was invented in the 1950s.
And the other major mistake would be that, you know, related to Opus Dei, for example, the character of Silas, who was an albino Opus Dei monk. Opus Dei is a lay organization. They don't have monks, and they're not intent on world domination.
(LAUGHTER)
GIBSON: OK. All right. Thank you very much, Amy Welborn.
WELBORN: You're welcome.
GIBSON: She's the author of "De-coding Mary Magdalene: Truth, Legend and Lies."
Thanks a lot, Amy.
WELBORN: Thank you.
By d mumsie, on 1:02 PM
d mumsie WTF is your point? did you just learn to copy and paste?!
Next time just send the link assclown.
By Anonymous, on 1:11 PM
Well, the Catholic churches aren't too phased with the premier of The Da Vinci Code, dismissing it as a form of fictional entertainment so I guess they're not too offended.
But I think we should still be considerate of other people's beliefs... I mean, that's enough Bible bashing, right? Of course there will always be exceptions where people follow their religions blindly and without question, but there are also those who searched long and hard for answers in life, and they found it through faith. Sooo I think everyone should respect that choice of the individuals and to stop attacking them for it.
sam harris:
I can't say for sure, but I don't think Christians believe that an "invisible deity" wrote the Bible. Instead, the Bible is just a collection of events, written by lots of different people, who God "inspired".
By Anonymous, on 1:20 PM
I dont have a problem with anyone having an imaginary friend untill they start flying planes into buildings and killing there children because "god" told them to do it...
By Anonymous, on 1:32 PM
it's sick that people refuse to accept the word of God, which is simple to understand, and instead accept these crazy stories, maybe if people actually started going to church more the world would be a less screwed up place, Christianity doesn't mean fanaticism like some represtent, it's a peaceful, loving faith
By Gala Apple, on 1:48 PM
"Arguing religion with the closed minded and God fearing majority is a no win situation anyway."
Your motives precede you. People shouldn't "argue" religion -- they should have a rational discussion on what they believe and why. The fact that you use words like "closed-minded" and "no-win situation" shows that you'd rather label people than have a chat with them.
By jeditemple, on 1:51 PM
^ And others of us are sick of people forcing "the word of God" on us. It's never been proven it's the "word of God". Just because some nutcase heard voices in his head and chiseled it onto a tablet and it's been translated and manipulated countless times since then does not make it true.
If this happened in 2006 with the advances in science and technology we have now, these people (the original author of the Bible and Jesus) would just be considered insane ie: David Koresh and Jim Jones.
By Anonymous, on 1:55 PM
"Anonymous said...
I dont have a problem with anyone having an imaginary friend untill they start flying planes into buildings and killing there children because "god" told them to do it...
May 17, 2006 1:32 PM"
LOL! I wish I had thought to say the imaginary friend thing!
And Sam Harris and Anon 11:43 AM, you are both right on!
By Loob, on 2:08 PM
Most religious people dont think and most thinkers are not religious. The problem with this world IS religion and if things dont change people will continue flying planes into buildings and doing other crazy shit. Going to church doesnt make you any more than a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car.
By Anonymous, on 2:09 PM
Some religious people do the right things for the wrong reason: because they think they will get something for themselves, like getting into Heaven.
True altruism might therefore only exist among good people who are NOT religious.
They are good and kind and generous because that is the right and decent way to be,
and they aren't just doing it under some threat of Hell or promise of Heaven.
By Anonymous, on 2:19 PM
Einstein didn't practice a religion per se, but he definitely believed in cosmic power and creationism. He's a thinker, isn't he?
Here's an interesting theory on 9-11:
http://www.loosechange911.com
or
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change
(the free documentary)
By Anonymous, on 2:19 PM
I can't believe all the Christian and Bible bashing that is going on here. Why are people so quick to dismiss God, the diety of Jesus, or the words of the Bible? Is it because you'd then have to be held accountable for your actions while here on Earth?
By Carrie, on 2:19 PM
^ I, for one, have studied religion most of my life. At this point I can sum up with, the Bible is a great guidebook for those who do not have the common sense required to be a good person and live comfortably and peacefully with fellow human beings, God is an invisible being in the sky and more people have been murdered in the name of religion than for any other reason since the dawn of man.
By Anonymous, on 2:24 PM
What I learned from all my years as a Catholic:
I can murder people, steal, molest, abuse and as long as I go to confession, ask for forgiveness and do the rosary, God will forgive me and I get to go to heaven.
Rinse and Repeat.
By Anonymous, on 2:30 PM
carrie-
The Muslims say every christian is going to hell. Who is right? they are obviously more fathfull considering you know, they are willing to die for their faith and all. by the way no one can prove hell even exists. The idea of hell was created by man a long time ago as a way to keep people in line, nothing more.
By Anonymous, on 2:30 PM
My favorite quote so far:
"Going to church doesnt make you any more of a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car."
(slightly edited for grammar)
By Anonymous, on 2:34 PM
Damn well pointed-out, 2:30pm!
Because as far as I'm concerned, the people who do those things should go straight to "Hell", after they've served a hefty (if not permanent) jail sentence!
And any religion that forgives rape or murder is evil in itself.
Thankfully we have the court system, which at least *tries* to protect the normal people from the monstrous ones.
By Anonymous, on 2:38 PM
Apparently all you people who are bashing Jesus have done absolutely nothing with your lives. I'm sure your father abused you, or you're overweight, or you're on welfare, and because of it you're jealous of those who are happy with their religion and feel the need to blame someone else because of your misfortunes. you are saying that christians are idiots because they base their beliefs on the bible, but YOU are basing your beliefs on a MOVIE...which one is more unrealistic?? also, those who "fly planes into buildings" were Muslim, NOT christians and if they did so it was only because they were punishing us for "claiming" to be a christian nation and not acting like one.
By Anonymous, on 2:38 PM
anonymous -
You're correct...who is right? We won't know that until the day we die. I only know what I believe to be true. And by the way, I do not believe radical Muslims and I worship the same God. The God I know (and who has shown Himself to be real in my life) has never asked anyone to kill innocent people in His name. My main reason for commenting was...why people are so quick to bash the idea of God and a book that only promotes loving your neighbor...not killing them?
By Carrie, on 2:41 PM
i can't believe what i am reading. You should NOT attack some one because of their beliefs. first off, all of your arguments have so many flaws. IF you are going to insult relgion plase make sure you have the correct informtion to do so, without such information you just sound like a load of ignorant idiotits, which quite frankly you all sound like. I am not going to bother correcting all of your mistakes on the christian relgion. However i feel the need to point out at least one idiotic statement:
"The problem with this world IS religion and if things dont change people will continue flying planes into buildings and doing other crazy shit."
Problem no 1: relgion has been around for thousands upon thousands of years, if it is such a bad thing why has our society not completely collapsed already. Also you can't dissmiss an entire relgion let alone, relgion in general, because if a minor sect of one relgion that promotes Violence!
I could go on attacking each of your statements individually but i just could not be arsed to read them all again.
You are all free to have your own opinion on relgion. I Would be happy to hear your opinion if had a valid argument, but reading these comments i have yet to see one, all i have seen is petty insults.
I don't want to push religion down your throats, if you chose not to have one, that is perfectly fine. But please do not attack or belittle someone because they chose to believe in something you do not.
P.S i also have to say in defense that one who is a christain should not insult a non believer because of they don't believe in it. I really don't appreciate the comment one made about how they must be "over-weight" and a" abused" that does not help us, it only adds to the idea of christains being condescending
By Mary Elizabeth, on 2:42 PM
Anon 2:38pm, I doubt anyone here is basing their beliefs on a movie,
but if they were it would be the same thing as basing it on a book.
I do find it very funny that your rant suggests we are jealous and tragic simply because we disagree with you.
That logic actually sounds a lot like my crazy Mormon sister in law.
Hey, what DO Mormons think of all this? Let's hear a shout-out.
Actually the origin of their bible is even funnier, at least it is from what I learned about it on South Park. ;)
By Anonymous, on 2:48 PM
Mary Elizabeth spelled religion wrong 8 times
By Anonymous, on 2:49 PM
2:38 PM .
"you're jealous of those who are happy with their religion" like bin laden and Pat robertson?
By Anonymous, on 2:52 PM
Its not very christian like to be looking at celebrity gossip blogs.
You are all going to hell, fuckers..
By Pat Robertson, on 2:56 PM
By the way, sorry about how it's all working out, Tom Hanks!
I still intend to see your movie because you're a great actor and I think it probably only got jeered at by the freaks who were so up-in-arms about whether or not it was claiming to be a work of fiction, which it IS!
It's a crime-thriller-fiction, people. That's all the writer ever claimed it was. It's a novel. Say it with me: naaaah-vel.
(No, this ain't Britney.)
By Anonymous, on 3:04 PM
I just saw the movie earlier tonight (it came out in France today), all I can say it was a huge disappointment. I've never been less interested in a film, loved the book though
By Anonymous, on 3:04 PM
re: Anonymous, 2:19PM
Einstein was one of those Godless communist types.
Oh, and a wesbite that usually funny when it comes to the religion question can be found here: http://gods4suckers.net/ [this isn't spam, is it?]
By csb, on 3:05 PM
Wow...there is a lot of anger here. I don't judge any of you for believing what you do (or do not)...but I do hope you all find your path in life -- one that promotes peace and loving others, even when they are doing wrong. None of us are perfect, afterall!
By Carrie, on 3:07 PM
dear mary elizabeth,
I started out respecting your comment when you advised people to stay away from ad hominem arguments, and then you went and said "you just sound like a load of ignorant idiotits."
Wow. You did exactly what you accused others of doing, and then you even misspelled "idiots." That is so funny on a variety of levels.
But back to the substance of your comment. You attempted to point out the idiocy of someone's comment by saying: "Problem no 1: relgion has been around for thousands upon thousands of years, if it is such a bad thing why has our society not completely collapsed already. Also you can't dissmiss an entire relgion let alone, relgion in general, because if a minor sect of one relgion that promotes Violence!"
Counterpoint number 1: You really should learn how to spell "religion" if you are going to call others idiots.
Counterpoint number 2: Have you ever heard of a little thing called The Crusades? Nearly all organized religions have condoned violence at some point.
Counterpoint number 3: Maybe society exists IN SPITE of religion. The logic of your question is flawed.
NOW GO READ A FUCKING BOOK AND LET THE ADULTS TALK.
Bottom line: Religion is great for those people who need something like that in their lives, as long as they don't hurt others. As a general rule, people are stupid and need to be told what to do. If a person is smart enough and kind enough to guide his own actions, then an imaginary diety in the sky is superfluous.
By a professor of religious studies, on 3:09 PM
Muslims are not more faithful because they are willing to die for a cause----a cause that has to do with economic wealth,not religion. Besides how can any God loving or faithfull people think God approves of massive killings,molesting of unage girls,
Arab muslims ensalving African
muslims, raping of lower tribal or
casted women & children (male & female) and last but not least THE KILLING OF OTHER GOD LOVING OR FAITHFUL PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITHS. Muslims want to rule the
world like any other group of oppresstors--there is nothing holy
about their mission or agenda.
By Anonymous, on 3:12 PM
anon 2:48,
Maybe you shouldn't base your ideas upon things you learn from a cartoon. That being said, Matt and Trey were pretty accurate about the origins. Didn't they grow up Mormon or something? Anyway, it is not a Mormon "Bible". Mormons believe in the Bible as well as another book called the Book of Mormon. 2 different things.
Lesson over.
By a mormon person, on 3:15 PM
"The problem with this world IS religion and if things dont change people will continue flying planes into buildings and doing other crazy shit. Going to church doesnt make you any more than a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car. "
Hey, fool, there are crazy people in the world. Some adhere vehemently to religious dogma and bank their lives on it.
Some adhere vehemently to atheist nihilism and bank their lives on it(Columbine, anyone?).
So there you have it - somecrazy people fly planes into buildings, and some crazy people shoot up a school of innocent people. All are extremists for their own cause.
Any sociologist or anthropologist will tell you: Religion has done more good than harm in this world. With the extinction of religion also comes the extinction of the morals that have kept the world turning for centuries. Without a feeling of divine judgement, people will be 100x more likely to steal, lie, hurt, etc. If you deny that, you're a little foolish snot. YOU may feel that you do not need a God to keep your behavior honorable, but the masses won't give a shit about society.
Everyone would adopt a Ayn Rand type of philosophy. And why the fuck not -- if this is the only life there is to live, we might as well do whatever feels best for ourselves! Three cheers for selfish indulgement and greed.
Atheism is the fucking doorway to the downfall of the world. Religion has it's downfalls -- but whether it's truth or not, it has certainly mantained social order.
By K.C., on 3:23 PM
Anon 3:12, Not all Muslims are crazed zealots. Mass-generalisations make you look ignorant.
Also, there's a lot of violence in the history of many religions, as you should be aware.
Read above: "a professor of religious studies", he/she is eloquent and right on the money.
By Loob, on 3:24 PM
Anon 3:15pm,
I thought it was pretty obvious that I was joking about South Park, but I did also add a wink ;)
to make it super-obvious.
By Anonymous, on 3:27 PM
I think the Jewish religion is based on fiction.
Jews today will murder you to protect there religious secrets.
The Torah was written by a man who slept with prostitutes.
Its not cool when it's your religion is it?
By Some_Like_it_Not, on 4:04 PM
So the movie sucks? or what?
By Anonymous, on 4:09 PM
re: some_like_it_not
the Torah was not written by one man. it was a combination of stories and historical truths. the man you refer to may or may not have slept with prostitutes (its hard to say who it was, since there were several authors of the Torah)... but since he's human, he's not exempt from sin.
By Anonymous, on 4:52 PM
Find it kind of funny that the comment starting the "serious" religious discussion on this thread is an atheistic one.
lol. Atheists are always so obsessed with religion; as bad as religious fanatics.
By graham, on 4:59 PM
Faith is nothing more than willful ignorance.
Religion is nothing more than a guide for the stupid and the weak.
The poster who says that the world will fall into chaos and evil without the fear of eternal retribution is an idiot.
God is an evil an violent entity as written in the bible. He gave humans free will. He then caused a flood killing almost all life on the planet (including people who had never heard of him and animals who had no way of knowing or worshipping). Since god is all knowing and omnipotent he must have known that he was going to have to destroy almost all life. The question is then why would god create people and animals that would have no way of becoming worthy in his eyes and then drown them and dash their bodies on the rocks?
Ever hear of the golden rule? That is all you will ever need to be moral in this life. If you require unicorns, god and three dollars bills packaged into explaining it to you then wish you would just stay home and out of the way of the rest of us.
By Anonymous, on 5:22 PM
I'm no expert on religion or Christianity or such but when did people forget that this is A MOVIE and to pay your 10 bucks (not including Milk Duds and a large slurpee) and lose themselves for a couple of hours? I guess I must be the minority.
By lucy, on 5:32 PM
What's with all the sermonising 5:22?
You're just as bad as those wild-eyed, fanatical 'pastors' out in the Bible Belt.
BTW, why the necessity of being 'moral' in this life if you don't believe in god or an afterlife? It doesn't make sense.
Get a clue.
By good grief, on 6:20 PM
I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed reading the comments here, especially by Anonymous (the Catholic). Mate, whoever you are, you rock. Totally agree with everything you said and I wish I could have a few beers with you! Anyway folks, whatever you believe or dont believe, at least try to be nice to each other! :)
By Anonymous, on 6:54 PM
For God's sake, or not, can we talk about the movie?
I loved the book, but when I heard Tom Hanks was the lead, i just about puked. His "academic" hair-do is laughable. This all makes me mad because if the casting was right, I think this movie could have been a hit.
I'm going to see it anyway.
By Anonymous, on 7:52 PM
RENTAL!
By Anonymous, on 8:38 PM
Straight to DVD in four months.
By Anonymous, on 10:33 PM
We shouldn't respect people's beliefs when they're inherently discriminatory and consititute naught but teh ages long rape of self-autonomy. Religion is a sorry social construct created by those in authority to eliminate responsibility for the consequences of pursuing their own agency. Once we wake up to this, actual sustainable societies may just be possible.
By Anonymous, on 10:52 PM
some_like_it_not -
Just curious what you think of Christianity & Islam, both of which incorporate the Torah as the Old Testament, etc. - If the first religion is flawed, than the two that built on it must be as well, n'est pas? Or did I miss something? ;)
By Anonymous, on 11:08 PM
Have you heard about the atheist who was taking a walk through a forest, admiring all that the accident of evolution had created?
"What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What beautiful animals!" he said to himself.
As he continued to walk alongside the river he began to hear a rustling in the bushes behind him. When he turned to look he momentarily froze out of sheer terror: a 7-foot grizzly was charging toward him!
He began to run as fast as he could away from the bear, but every time he looked over his shoulder he noticed the bear was running faster and getting closer, which caused him to put all his strength together to run even faster. He was so scared that tears were coming to his eyes.
But when he looked over his shoulder again the bear was even closer. With a heart that was pumping frantically, he tried to run still even faster. The the worse thing possible happened...he tripped over a stump and fell to the ground!
Quickly, he rolled over to pick himself up just in time to see the bear, almost right on top of him! The bear was reaching for him with its left paw while raising its right paw to strike!
At that instant the atheist cried out "God, HELP ME!..."
Time instantly froze. The bear became immobile. The forest was completely without motion and noise-even the river had stopped moving.
All of a sudden the atheist heard a powerful, authoritive voice speak out...
"You have denied my existence for many years. You have taught others I don't exist, and even credited my creation to a cosmic accident. Why now do you expect me to help you out of this predicament?"
The atheist was startled, but finally collected his wits, "It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask you to show mercy on me now, but perhaps you could make the bear a Christian?"
All of a sudden the noise of the forest resumed, the river was running again, and the bear was no longer immobile.
In fact the bear was dropping its right paw! It brought both paws together, bowed its head, and to the consternation of the atheist, began to speak!
"Lord for this food which I am about to receive, I am truly thankful..."
-----------------
I thought I'd share this joke with you all to lighten things up a bit. Remember we are ALL in this together. We shouldn't point fingers at someone because they're religious. If it means it makes them a better person, then more power to you. It's not all just about being a better person either. It's also about what's going to happen to your soul when you pass away. I believe in an afterlife. Life and this world are just a small part of what it's really all about. Our time here is short, but precious. We are here to learn. There are many good religions. Pick one that's right for you. Religion is just a way or style you choose to worship God. I have many friends who belong to different religions. As long as you believe that some entity is responsible for the precious gift of life-this world, its animals, plantlife, the sun, the moon, everything just works together so beautifully. It is a masterpiece. Life gets hard. God wants it that way sometimes so we can grow stronger. Life is easier to handle when you have a spiritual foundation netting you from falling in a black hole of confusion, despair and frustration.
I was born Catholic, but don't take the religion too seriously. I still read about it, and practice some things about it, but I also like to read about other religions as well and try some of their advice and points-of-view on things. I like to learn from people, not point fingers or name call. I can admire someone for their convictions, even if I don't entirely agree with them. Nobody truly has all the answers until after you die. I will tell you that I do feel a connection with God, or with a God. I think you will too, once you stop running away from that connection. We should all be taking delight and a genuine interest in each other's opinions. You know, there is one thing that the many different types of religion in the world have in common? It's the Golden Rule - "Do unto others they way you would have them do unto you." Shouldn't we? Life is too short.
By sugarcookie, on 11:41 PM
Oh wow this was a freaky one. Can I just point out that the people who seem to think that everybody would starting raping/murdering/stealing if there was no book to tell us what to do - there are many books other than the bible, not to mention a small thing called societal pressure.
But anyhow .... I hated the book and have no intention of seeing the movie, and as an academic myself, Tom Hanks looks so NOT an academic of any sort or type. Where are his elbow patches? His pipe? Hee hee ... more seriously, jeans and a sweater are more academic, what's with the natty suit and dark shirt? And the weird hair ....
By Anonymous, on 12:19 AM
I think the majority of you people are forgetting that this book/movie is FICTION, meaning it's NOT true. Sorry, but it really annoys me when people boycott crap like this for their own agenda. It's a movie!
By Anonymous, on 3:31 AM
Religion is only flawed when extremists follow it to a fault. (I.e. crashing planes into buildings in the name of Allah, or the "holy" crusades parts 1,2, and three lol ) The world would be a better place if everyone practiced the fundamentals of any given belief, but as always there are loads of crazies out there that love going overboard....perhaps they belong on cruise ships! That being said...it's a movie...see it or don't. Did people freak out when Indiana Jones found the holy grail?!?! OMG a new thread! LOL CHEERS
By Anonymous, on 5:31 AM
"BTW, why the necessity of being 'moral' in this life if you don't believe in god or an afterlife? It doesn't make sense.
Get a clue."
"Good Grief",
If you seriously believe there is NO reason to be a GOOD PERSON other than the threat/promise of an afterlife,
then I guess it's a good thing there IS religion to keep the truly selfish and soulless like yourself in line!!
The rest of us, who know that we should all treat people well, so that everyone can be equally safe and happy,
WE will continue to be good people, with no need of religion's threats.
By Anonymous, on 8:12 AM
sugarcookie-
that was the stupidest shit I have ever read. Yeah then the elves came out the trees and had cookies and they all had a oicnick with the faries and unicorns. retarded...
By Anonymous, on 8:20 AM
so it is best to be half ass religious and only follow blind faith. As long as you go to church on sunday and look nice in front of your peers you will go to "heaven".
By Anonymous, on 8:25 AM
I'm gonna wait for it to get to the $2.50 theatre.
I'll agree with Marx on the religion thing. I mean, the guy who wrote Revelations (John) was in prison suffering starvation and sleep deprivation, of COURSE he was hallucinating and getting 'the crazies.' I can't believe people take all that seriously.
By Anonymous, on 9:26 AM
Ok. So I guess all of you that just believe that religion and the Bible was made up beleive in evolution. Right? I do believe in God and I do go to church. There is a bigger being and HE does great things for people. How do you explain MIRACLES. If we did evolve from monkeys how did we do it? Nobody can yet to explain that. We do know how we were made from God. I just don't think that we should talk about people that don't go to church. Maybe they just haven't experienced His presence yet. I do pray for each one of you that don't believe in religion. I do hope that one day that you all will know God or at least give him a chance. He is a wonderful being. I just hope that it is before the end of time.
By Anonymous, on 9:38 AM
why is everyone arguing whether religion is right/wrong...false, stupid etc... its like saying im better then u because i have a bigger house...its an argument without a basis. Many of you are insulting posters, rather then the arguments they make... you try to demean and dismiss their post by how they spelled certain words. Their spelling is not important, but what is said is, whether true, or not, it has a point. Also making posts and statements like "go to confession, kill, confession etc" is not true, christianity though forgiving does not work that way. Many statements are ignorant, many are not, hell even some of you will think my statements are ignorant or hypocrytical, thats great u can tell me why, just make it a legitimate argument. I am a religious person, im a christian, i have studied and researched theology, looked at philosophy and am trying to understand religion.
To me it is not important what the religion is, but rather the message behind it. Whether buddhism, christianity, etc.. they all have similar messages, there's different sects within these religions with similar and opposing views, each viewing their point of view about the other, just like the arguments here. Whether you are atheist, is not important, whether you are religious is not important, what is important is how you live your life, how you treat others. Religion provides a guide to life, but there are many guides, and it is up to the person to choose. I dont really want to rant, so ill finish my post quickly.
I have read the da vinci code, i think its a great book and you can learn alot from it even though lots of it is false:P.
P.S.- As some philosopher said (dont remmeber name or exact quote, but here's the gist of it), if you live an honest life ull feel good and satisfied even if god does not exist, but if there is a god,all the better for u cause ull be going to heaven :P.
By Anonymous, on 9:45 AM
"...But anyhow .... I hated the book and have no intention of seeing the movie, and as an academic myself, Tom Hanks looks so NOT an academic of any sort or type. Where are his elbow patches? His pipe? Hee hee ... more seriously, jeans and a sweater are more academic, what's with the natty suit and dark shirt? And the weird hair ....
May 18, 2006 12:19 AM "
Don't forget Jeff Goldblum the mathematician in Jurassic Park, with his way-sexy leather jacket and pants, and his shirt open all the way down... ;)
Oops I mentioned a dinosaur movie, someone *smite* me!!
Oh no that's right, dinosaurs are supposedly a *test of faith* right?
*eyeroll*
By Loob, on 11:50 AM
"good grief said...
What's with all the sermonising 5:22?
You're just as bad as those wild-eyed, fanatical 'pastors' out in the Bible Belt.
May 17, 2006 6:20 PM"
Actually 6:20pm,
if you had been paying attention you would have realised that that poster wants his question answered.
Why WOULD God have done that, if it happened at all?
"He gave humans free will. He then caused a flood killing almost all life on the planet (including people who had never heard of him and animals who had no way of knowing or worshipping).
Since god is all knowing and omnipotent he must have known that he was going to have to destroy almost all life.
The question is then why would god create people and animals that would have no way of becoming worthy in his eyes and then drown them and dash their bodies on the rocks?"
No one ever answers that question. It's always met with annoyed silence.
By Anonymous, on 12:29 PM
May 18, 2006 8:12 AM
People would be perfectly 'safe and happy' even if I chose to be a "bad" person. Concern for other people's safety and happiness is just not enough of a reason for most people to behave, and it is certainly not a persuasive one when dealing with the mass of humanity at large. Do you really think society can be kept 'safe and happy' by extolling people to be good simply because it's good for society? Sorry, that doesn't work and is extremely naive. I'm guessing you're still in HS or early college.
As an example, what do you think society would be like if there was no police and the threat of arrest and imprisonment? How much more crime do you think there would be? How long in even the most 'civilised' of countries before people would be stealing from, raping and killing each other?
You don't have to travel too far in this small world of ours to see what living under lawlessness is like in some countries (Somalia, Afghanistan): constant fear and utter insecurity, senseless death, unbounded crime; in other words, an amoral chaos of inhuman horrors devoid of any justice or meaning, utter emptiness.
Without threat of punishment people would be at each others' throats soon enough; even you with all your high-minded ideals would be. It would become a matter of survival.
Sorry. I know it's not pretty. But we are talking about human beings after all, and we all know what we can be like given the right circumstances.
By good grief, on 12:47 PM
Good Grief, I had also said previously:
As far as I'm concerned, the people who do those things should go straight to "Hell", after they've served a hefty (if not permanent) jail sentence!
And any religion that forgives rape or murder is evil in itself.
Thankfully we have the court system, which at least *tries* to protect the normal people from the monstrous ones.
May 17, 2006 2:38 PM
I never actually said anything naive at any time that would help you with your tangent.
My point was simple; people should be good to each other and religion isn't *required* for a person to be good.
I never said the entire world was good or bad, or that asking people to be good was the answer,
but you didn't need to actually read and absorb before you went off on your rant, the mark of a true child.
You found the rest of your rant totally on your own.
You say that I'm naive, based on the twisting and incorrect extrapolation of my words,
when you yourself sound like a carefully manufactured cynic, trying really hard to make ALL people sound amoral,
which simply isn't accurate of this world.
I guarantee I'm at least 20 years older than you. I can just tell by your immaturity.
By Anonymous, on 1:20 PM
May 18, 2006 12:29 PM
God created humanity and gave it free-will and the choice to believe in Him or not as a test to see who would be the true believers. Just because He knew the outcome wasn't going to be very good doesn't mean He shouldn't have created them. I mean, then why create anything at all?
That is, really, the heart of your question in a way: why did God create the universe at all? Why is there something rather than nothing?
Of course, to that I have no answer (although it doesn't 'annoy' me). An analogy might be why does an artist create?
Some people say He did it out of "love." Not the kind of love we know but a higher, divine type of love (whatever that means!). Another anology to us: why do we love? (propagation of the species is a poor reason, let's face it. you don't need love for that and yet we do love nonetheless)
The Muslim mystics (Sufis) say He created the world because 'He was a hidden treasure and wanted to be discovered'. You can take this meaning anyway you like. My feeling is that it's a little more complex than it sounds. Far be it for me to understand what the heck most of those guys were talking about anyway, they were way out there.
Ok. Tired now.
By good grief, on 1:26 PM
May 18, 2006 1:20 PM
Oh boy.
I'm tired now and can't be bothered to answer you anymore. Suffice it to say your comment doesn't address what I said, is confused and bizarrely angry. Lighten up.
By good grief, on 1:32 PM
As I've said, it was just a joke to lighten things up, but I see you have no sense of humor or personality. What my point was was that religion is good when it's a way a person expresses their spirituality. Religion is bad when people follow it in an extremist way and allow it to close their minds. We should have open minds and arms for everyone. And for the people out there who do not believe in anything at all, you will when it's staring you back in the face one day. Got soul?
By sugarcookie, on 8:51 PM
Personally I think it's more important to be spiritual than soaked & dripping in organized religion. I also think that believing in God and an afterlife helps people to behave. Human beings are capable of some pretty sickening disgusting violent insane things. The police and other law enforement agencies can only take it so far. If you had a choice to live in a Godless world or a world where people believed, which one would you choose?
By sugarcookie, on 9:34 PM
I saw it yesterday and I have to say, that it's a really good movie. I hate church anyway, but a lot of the tings in the movie a real theories ( you know like the Maria thing).
By Willow, on 4:41 AM
The movie is brilliant, dont listen to what the critics say.. I saw it last night and it's exciting, well acted and all round good entertainment. What more can you ask for?
By Anonymous, on 7:54 PM
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